Abortion

First topic message reminder :

Ok.. I agree late term abortion is screwed up. But earlier abortion should not be tampered with. I feel that making laws controlling when a woman has a child is extremely sexist, since most of the lawmakers are men. And... it seems like men are trying to oppress women.

Furthermore, if the Pro-lifers would widen their field of view to look at the whooole picture. You would see that abortion is good.
Fact: Most women who have an abortion are NOT teenagers, they are middleaged and cannot support another child.
Fact: 20 years after abortion was legalized, this country experienced a sharp decrease in crime, especially the violent ones. Mainly because the aborted babies, would not have received enough loving attention, care, ect to grow into a respectable member of our society. Not that it is their fault that this would have happened, but by aborting it. The mother saved the potential child from years of suffering, possibly prison, possibly gang activity. ect.

Yes adoption is great, but please don't go on PUT IT UP FOR ADOPTION tangents, because unlike Juno you cannot find a couple ready to take on in, inside "The Penny-Saver" (Thanks to my GF for making me watch that movie... too many times.)

I think abortion is wrong.

I think abortion is a moral.

I don't think morals should be placed as laws.

Unfortunately, it happens because some people are ass holes.

You're not a human until you're in my phone book.

There is no viable infrastructure to take the place of abortion in our present society.
Too many corrupt adoption centers
Too many crack mothers and potential crack babies.
Too many backstreet abortions.
Too much poverty.
With that said, I think abortions are horrific, and I also think if a decision is made about the baby then it must be made before the third trimester. There is no excuse for a decision to occur so late in development except in very specific circumstances.
Some more logic that astounds me is the whole belief that "I am against abortion , but I am not giving some of MY HARD EARNED MONEY to welfare."
I have a question, why do you think many of these abortions occur? Am I out of my mind thinking one reason could be lack of funds? those welfare dollars are helping some babies that were given life.
The whole logic of "We love the baby! until its born, THEN IT NEEDS TO FEND FOR ITSELF" Pisses me off.
Many of the unaborted babies would be subjected to a life of poverty and misery, resulting in crime, and oh yeah, those babies would then live in federal prisons funded by..oh yeah, your tax dollars.
Adoption needs to be heavily improved as well, my father was adopted for six months and his siblings were beaten for the majority of that time. This is sadly, not always an outlier in the equation of adoption.
Finally, I am very okay with being told that I have no right to tell women what they cannot do, I am a man, I never will experience another life within me. I have no idea what kind of feelings are through a mother at that time. How can I tell a woman what to do in these circumstances when I will never know them myself, a man's opinion, I believe should be heard last behind those with experience on the range of situations that can occur during pregnancy.
Those who say my first and last paragraph contradict, piss me off.

Couldn't say it better myself Donald

Abortion is not something that should be questioned morally. Why? Because there need be no question of its immorality. Yes, it is immoral, and you can't get around that.

The true question behind abortion should lie in what decision seems to make the most sense. Unfortunately, at times, it is necessary for abortions to occur within the first trimester because you are saving a person from a life that's not worth living. As Donald said, there are too many circumstances that do indeed provide justification for abortion. Yes, it's cruel, but people die. Ironically, most who are against abortions support the death penalty. That's contradictory and totally negates any opinion they have on abortion.

It isn't entirely about a WOMAN'S rights it is about the child's life, the developing humans' rights. I am pro adoption. I believe if the child has the possibility of being born with a physical retardation or mental retardation, if it puts the mother at risk, if it was a rape baby, and if the mother can't finance hospital stays abortion is a valid option. It has to be done before the second trimester.

This might sound a bit radical but I do not believe anything is fundamentally immoral. Yes there are actions that obstruct society and exploit people which is not "right" in my opinion, but no one has moral obligations.

I <3 your liberalism, Melly

I'm also stoked to see you back.

Back to topic!

I'm pro-choice. Our population is going to be pushing 9 billion in a few years. We're way past the carrying capacity of earth, and sometimes you have to look at civilization at a whole before you can look at an individual blastocyst or whatever.

Think about the kid. He or she will produce thousands of tons of CO2 from just living, and certainly contribute to global warming and the destruction of civilization.

We can't keep modifying the environment to sustain human expansion. We're destroying our Earth.

I know this is pretty black. I've been in a very misanthropic mood as of late.

I'm not a kid person, either, so that's not a good combination xD

...

But yeah, Donald totally nailed it. The system needs to be reworked, entirely.

Very true, I'm impressed by your post

Haha, Why Thank you Spish. Though that post was indeed a bit radical, (Ever heard of Malthus ) You definitely have a fine point, and it is crucial that we look into some of the solutions from the problems that are plaguing this earth. (Greed, Big business, industrialization.) We're becoming a society of entertainment and destroying everything of beauty in an effort to get a couple extra dollars. It's time to love the world we were given and take a stand. It kills me to see our world destroyed so that we can put up another wal-mart.

That's a bit radical though spish..can you imagine if people started to propose the argument that abortion should be legal because there are too many people already?

That's like...devaluing humanity. Haha.

With that idea, would you say as well, "keep the poor countries poor as those people are dying faster than the developed countries?"

I like the idea of just aborting an entire generation.. that'd postpone the fuckedum that is going to insue once Miley is played on T95 (I know its coming... and I got a 1 chamber revolver to play russian roulette once it does...)
But just imagine... an entire years worth of babies aborted... it'd be grand.

hahaha, oh brad, but you know, once 2012 rolls around, that would probably do essentially the same thing.

eh... but I wanna become an abortion docter, and get paid fiddy for all those abortions? shit... I'd be rich and could afford to put gas in my camaro! yesss

haha, you'd be george tiller on roids.

Idk about him... but I'd kick the shit out of someone who tried to put a bullet in my dick.. I need that so I can create more appointments for my future practice.

I do not support abortion. I think it is very wrong to stop anything from being FULLY created.
It's almost like cutting someone off while making a beautiful creation.
We need to realize that abortion is not acceptable, and see that we get fooled so easily.
It's like we think that just because we seem to get a satisfying feeling out of something we do,
we automatically think it's right. If abortion is right, then exactly what do we win?!
Or what do we lose? I honeslty find it disapointing to see what we are coming to.
We fall into this propaganda so easily. Pro-life means to be "for life".
And what's the opposite of life? (death) Then shouldn't it be call pro-death or pro-abortion?.
We try so hard to cover up it and
say "pro-choice" when in reality, it's just a cover-up for
what it really is; DEATH.
If it's right then why are we trying to hide it (possibly because we know it's wrong)
I respect everyones opinions, but it's foolish and sad to agree with abortion.

You could also call pro-life-Anti-Choice, The problem with this argument is that there is not a side that everyone is going to agree upon, both sides have merit and justification behind them.
The best hope we have is to find a compromise.

no, the point is "pro choice" (in my opinion)
seems fake. almost as if that's just what
it's called so it won't sound bad.
i mean who would agree with a name
as "pro-death" or "pro-abortion"
im not trying to argue, just trying to get you to see
what i mean.

I know what you mean, but by that exact same logic, who would agree with Anti-Choice?
Freedom is arguably the most important thing on this earth, taking that away is arguably as bad as pro-abortion.
And by the way, being pro-death or pro abortion implies you want every baby aborted, I do not, I think its an awful practice.
I do have a question for you though.
What do we do about the crack moms who do crack during their entire pregnancy, do we let the baby be born to 3 months of excruciating pain before the baby dies naturally because of the crack, or should the mom abort it to no pain at all in the first trimester?

yes i would agree. Who wouldn't agree with
not having the choice to kill a baby?
and about the crack moms....
you said it your self they die of natural cause
rather than chopping it off in pieces( the most un-natural way)
its sickening to think that you would go to
a doctor and ask for him to kill what is
growing inside of YOU. A baby becomes
a part of you. It eats, sleeps, and goes everywhere
with you. You can't kill what is yours. That's pretty sad.

Okay, so you're fine with the baby suffering for 3 months in excruciating pain?
I don't know about you, but I think it would be easier for it to go via a pill during the first trimester.
I think subjecting a baby to torture is worse than letting it go before it even knows it exists.

no of course not. but i much rather
have the baby die because of what
it's mother has done, and let it
be the mother's fault rather than have it killed by
a pill which involves other people
in this act. making not only the doctors
who make the pills immoral but also
the mom, the actual doctor, and everybody
else who is okay with having an abortion
immoral too.

The mom will not care, (She is on crack) and she won't be punished anyways for the babies death. The reason abortion was put into place was to stop these babies from living excruciating lives. (Subjecting them to torture is worse than abortion) And to stop backstreet abortions, and to also allow abortion after rape.
Now, I have a question for you,
What's your stance on welfare?

even if nobody cares it doesnt make it okay.
its never okay. as for the moms punishment, she
will deffinetly be punished. i don't think that the only reason abortion
was made was too stop babies from living excruciating lives.
many women and girls get abortions
simply because they are ashamed and don't want to
deal with being a parent, which they should
have thought about when they were doing the
things they shouldn't be doing.
As for rape, the mother should see the baby as the only beautiful thing
that came out of the situation. she should see it as something
positive, not a shame or a bother.
i would rather see my kid grow up with an illness
or a birth defect than not have to see them at all.


My stance on welfare?
well im only fourteen.
but i can tell you that my family isn't the richest.
not that money is super important to me.
my mom and dad have a full time job
and i will soon be working too, to help provide
for my high school education.

I'd much rather an abortion take place than knowing the biological parents can't take care of the kid.
I don't give a s*** about adoption, in fact, I despise it. If you're going to have a kid, make sure you can take care of it. Sure, accidents happen, but if you're prepared, you can take care of it. If not, get an abortion.

Just don't make a kid live in with the misery of never getting to know who their real parents are.

The problem is, in the mindset you're speaking from as if this is a perfect world. Often times, families or women simply CANNOT afford to have a baby. Or would rather not have a baby suffer when its born. No, the mom would not be punished for an alcoholic born baby who dies at birth, the baby just gets to live through excruciating pain until its eventual death. In my opinion, those who believe thats okay are pro-death. Because if it was taken care of in the first trimester the baby would not have suffered at all.
Also, how about single women trying to make a life who get raped, and cannot afford a baby at all, or who live in hatred of that child for that childs entire life, that childs life would be terrible.
Also, economically, abortions happen because that child would live an awful life in poverty, potentially get into crime, and then end up in one of our federal prisons.
Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world.
On welfare, do you support it, or are you against it?