Abortion

First topic message reminder :

Ok.. I agree late term abortion is screwed up. But earlier abortion should not be tampered with. I feel that making laws controlling when a woman has a child is extremely sexist, since most of the lawmakers are men. And... it seems like men are trying to oppress women.

Furthermore, if the Pro-lifers would widen their field of view to look at the whooole picture. You would see that abortion is good.
Fact: Most women who have an abortion are NOT teenagers, they are middleaged and cannot support another child.
Fact: 20 years after abortion was legalized, this country experienced a sharp decrease in crime, especially the violent ones. Mainly because the aborted babies, would not have received enough loving attention, care, ect to grow into a respectable member of our society. Not that it is their fault that this would have happened, but by aborting it. The mother saved the potential child from years of suffering, possibly prison, possibly gang activity. ect.

Yes adoption is great, but please don't go on PUT IT UP FOR ADOPTION tangents, because unlike Juno you cannot find a couple ready to take on in, inside "The Penny-Saver" (Thanks to my GF for making me watch that movie... too many times.)

umm, no you are sadly mistaken i don't see this
world as "perfect" as you said i did. i would have thought
that you would think that i saw this world as SAD,
DEPRESSING, PATHETIC, AND DISGUSTING.
it's anything but PERFECT. i can't believe
the world is at the state where
they accept so many immoral things.
i hope that when judgment day comes,
WE are all ready. Cause God knows how big
of sinners we are. And i hope
that abortion is something he will
forgive. and honestly if abortion
makes things so much "BETTER" than
how come women live so harshly
after an abortion. i have not met or seen one
woman who didn't regret or resent having an abortion.
if i was a young , poor mother, i would fight
and KEEP my beautiful child.
because it is MINE. and it is
MY responsibility. It is my baby!
and there is no way in this earth i would
ever find a reason to KILL it.

I know of women who had an abortion and haven't regretted it. Sometimes it is a very necessary evil.
Now, what would I do if pressed in this situation?
Well, I am not a woman.
But I would encourage my partner to keep the baby, I myself would never encourage an abortion for my child.
But, the world does not think like that, it is not a perfect world.
What I mean is, many cannot sacrifice themselves for their child.
Many children who are born will be living in an awful life of poverty and crime.
Many crack babies will live torturous lives.
I respect what you'd do for your child, that makes you a terrific person, I would encourage the same thing.
But sadly, we are only two people.

Pro-Life people should start boycotting Funeral Parlors and Graveyards, let's see how commitited you are to this concept of Pro-Life.

well sadly, nobody in this world
will ever live without crime and poverty
if its not in your neighborhood its on
the T.V. or in the next state. that's not an excuse
to have an abortion.
i've heard what you have said many times
"I would never have and abortion, but i am pro-choice"
or "My wife and I would never accept and abortion,
but she should have a choice."
i find that quite hypocritical. (no offense, im not
trying attacking you directly)
as for it being a neccesary evil...
(haha) no evil is neccesary.
if you can't keep youR child...
maybe its time to go to a church.

Who is to judge what is moral and immoral? I think the only "command" which the Bible gave which remotely pertains to this subject is to "be fruitful and multiply"; however, the Bible also tells us not to eat pork and numerous other things which are irrelevant to how we live in modern society. A century ago, it wasn't a big deal when families had 12 children, because if they were on a farm, each child could lend a hand on the farm. In current American life, we create television shows revolving around families with that many children. This world is a SAD, DEPRESSING, PATHETIC, and DISGUSTING place. The entire idea of not letting women receive abortions fits perfectly into a chauvinists ideals of society. Men rarely have to deal with the consequences of a baby in cases of teen and young adult pregnancies. Forcing teens; stupid, stupid teenagers, into having children is going to ruin both the teen's and the child's life. Neither will be as privileged as they would have been if the mother had been years older. People say that children are a precious thing; if so, why are we not saving the 30 thousand children dying of starvation a day in Africa?

JakeTheSnake wrote:Pro-Life people should start boycotting Funeral Parlors and Graveyards, let's see how commitited you are to this concept of Pro-Life.

haha....that's very funny (nice one)
i don't know if you really want me to respond.
how you stated your opinion makes
me question wether you are serious or not?

It's not hypocritical, if its my child, I wouldn't want it aborted. But because its my personal opinion should that apply to everyone? No. it shouldn't, and, if my wife, or girlfriend wanted an abortion, do I have any power to stop her, no. She is the one who has to give birth anyways.
And also, you never answered my question.
Do you support welfare?

kissthezombie wrote:

JakeTheSnake wrote:Pro-Life people should start boycotting Funeral Parlors and Graveyards, let's see how commitited you are to this concept of Pro-Life.

haha....that's very funny (nice one)
i don't know if you really want me to respond.
how you stated your opinion makes
me question wether you are serious or not?

It's a joke

i see you don't understand.
regardless, if your
girlfriend, wife, sister, mother, etc
wants to have a abortion, yes you
do have a right to your opinion
the point isn't to force her not to have
a abortion it's more of letting her
know the truth, about how abortion is
wrong. that way you didn't force her to do or not
do something but you let her know what the moral
and correct thing is.

as for welfare. heck! it's
help. what's the problem?

JakeTheSnake wrote:

kissthezombie wrote:

JakeTheSnake wrote:Pro-Life people should start boycotting Funeral Parlors and Graveyards, let's see how commitited you are to this concept of Pro-Life.

haha....that's very funny (nice one)
i don't know if you really want me to respond.
how you stated your opinion makes
me question wether you are serious or not?

It's a joke

yeah i figured. but then i thought
wait maybe he's serious?
anyways....i ususally dont
think jokes on serious topics are
funny but your is completely harmless
and UBER funny!

Welfare is good, I'm glad we agree on welfare.
No, I do not have an opinion on this, I will never know what its like to have another being inside of me. I do not have to go through childbirth, I do not deserve to have an opinion on this.
It's like asking a construction worker to be a head chef at a fine restaurant after he's finished building it.
I think abortion is necessary at times, as wrong as it is, it is needed in our present society.
Adoption is not the answer either.
If an abortion saves a life from suffering to death. I'm for it
If an abortion saves a mothers life, I'm for it.
Until something is done about our adoption system, and sex-ed education. Abortion will always be necessary.

kissthezombie, do you support the death penalty?

umm...well thats still not what i meant but okay.
and i think abortion will never be okay.
but im glad we both believe abortion is
acceptable if it puts the mother's life in danger
that i do agree. and its not like asking a construction
worker to be head of a resturaunt. (lol)
it's like telling someone not shoot someone (cause it wrong)

DilliDali wrote:kissthezombie, do you support the death penalty?

NO!!! of course not!
I see what you are trying to get
at. My old teacher threw that one at me
I mean cummon! Who are we to say
who dies!?


why?

I am not the mother though, in the end, I feel it is her call. For only she can truly know what it is like. I would definitely encourage her to keep the baby. but at the end of the day? It's her decision.
There are times, like when the mothers life is in danger, that it just needs to happen.
Adoption is too corrupt.
Some people are too poor.
And some babies lives will be filled with suffering and anguish until their death.
Do I someday dream that we'll live in a perfect enough world to not have abortion, yes.
If I was in power now I would make an effort to stop abortions in the third trimester.
But in our present world, some abortions are justified, even necessary.

kissthezombie wrote:

DilliDali wrote:kissthezombie, do you support the death penalty?

NO!!! of course not!
I see what you are trying to get
at. My old teacher threw that one at me
I mean cummon! Who are we to say
who dies!?


why?

Good for you!
I find it horrible how most people who are against abortion are for the death penalty. I find it rather hypocritical.

yeah...i think you get my point now.
you cannot decide for her. its her
body and her choice. but you can
let her know its wrong and immoral.
I do belive an abortion is necessary
IF and ONLY the mothers life is in
danger. Not all adoption is corrupt.
And not all is great. But there
are really good churches too.
Who will take a mother of 5
and help her. I have witnessed this.
Adoption isnt the only other choice.

DilliDali wrote:

kissthezombie wrote:

DilliDali wrote:kissthezombie, do you support the death penalty?

NO!!! of course not!
I see what you are trying to get
at. My old teacher threw that one at me
I mean cummon! Who are we to say
who dies!?


why?

Good for you!
I find it horrible how most people who are against abortion are for the death penalty. I find it rather hypocritical.

Same her! I find it sad when
they represent pro-life so poorly.

Yeah, I've always believed that though (You can look back at my earlier posts to see that was always my opinion).
I think that was the first time we were on the same page, lol.
Yes, but not all mothers live near accepting churches who are going to help. Some churches will look down at her for even getting pregnant. With no place to go, what are her other choices.
My father and his siblings were beaten for six months when he was adopted at the age of four.
I have seen two other examples of adoption (Adoptions with individuals I know personally) which have gone horribly wrong.
Adoption at this time is not a viable choice, and sometimes, going to a welcoming church isn't either.

its really sad you havent heard of
a church thats willing to help.
maybe i should have been more
specific and said to go to a
CATHOLIC church. I can honeslty say
there will never be a catholic
church that will deny anybody!
My catholic church has theives,
killers, drug addicts, pregnant teens,
and even divorced or struggling marriages.
I can guaruntee that if a women goes
to a catholic church neither God or the parish
will deny or look down on her.
Because truth be told, WE ARE ALL SINNERS.

I've sadly heard of bad catholic churches as well.
The best luck I've had is at United Church of Christ.
But after my favorite pastor left I haven't been able to find a home anywhere else.
I do have a favorite church though, my dads best friend jack always inspires me when I listen to him preach.
Too bad he lives over an hour away

haha...i wasnt trying to bash on my church
i meant it take's in any sinners or people
in need. I love my church its there for everyone.

kissthezombie wrote:its really sad you havent heard of
a church thats willing to help.
maybe i should have been more
specific and said to go to a
CATHOLIC church. I can honeslty say
there will never be a catholic
church that will deny anybody!
My catholic church has theives,
killers, drug addicts, pregnant teens,
and even divorced or struggling marriages.
I can guaruntee that if a women goes
to a catholic church neither God or the parish
will deny or look down on her.
Because truth be told, WE ARE ALL SINNERS.

I'm not much for God, sorry.

I'll accept my end after living a proud life, a life on my own.

I don't believe church is the answer, and I'm sorry for disagreeing with you there. I respect your religious preference, but religion tends to interfere with many social issues, abortion, for instance, is one. Certainly, a devout Christian would think that denying an embryo to a life is a sort of bereavement, but in most cases, it's saving the lives of the parents (financially, socially, whatever.) What good is a child growing up under inadequate conditions? From poverty comes crime. Denying abortion may inadvertently (however minutely) cause crime rates to ascend. Not to mention the fact that socially liberal people may still seek abortions, even after a legislation has been passed to inhibit them being done professionally. This would put countless others in harm of back-room treatments (I needn't list them here.)

It's senseless to legally enforce social issues. This is why prohibition failed.

Spishnittlestick wrote:

kissthezombie wrote:its really sad you havent heard of
a church thats willing to help.
maybe i should have been more
specific and said to go to a
CATHOLIC church. I can honeslty say
there will never be a catholic
church that will deny anybody!
My catholic church has theives,
killers, drug addicts, pregnant teens,
and even divorced or struggling marriages.
I can guaruntee that if a women goes
to a catholic church neither God or the parish
will deny or look down on her.
Because truth be told, WE ARE ALL SINNERS.

I'm not much for God, sorry.

I'll accept my end after living a proud life, a life on my own.

I don't believe church is the answer, and I'm sorry for disagreeing with you there. I respect your religious preference, but religion tends to interfere with many social issues, abortion, for instance, is one. Certainly, a devout Christian would think that denying an embryo to a life is a sort of bereavement, but in most cases, it's saving the lives of the parents (financially, socially, whatever.) What good is a child growing up under inadequate conditions? From poverty comes crime. Denying abortion may inadvertently (however minutely) cause crime rates to ascend. Not to mention the fact that socially liberal people may still seek abortions, even after a legislation has been passed to inhibit them being done professionally. This would put countless others in harm of back-room treatments (I needn't list them here.)

It's senseless to legally enforce social issues. This is why prohibition failed.

Mkay. Well I respect your opinion.
You can hate God if you want! That
doesnt mean you have to rebel against
everything he says.
But if you are trying to say that I
am pro-life because of my religion
then you are mistaken. I chose to be
pro-life all on my own. yes God plays
a HUGE role in my beliefs. but he gave me,
you ,and everyone else freedom of beliefs.
As for what society WANTS, well honestly
why go along with society. And i think abortion
is so controversial because people make so
many excuses. Instead of accepting
the situation they are in, they want to escape
it and do what makes them feel better.
Which in my opinion makes you a coward.
In life you have to deal with what it brings you.
Wether it easy or not.
By the way, God doesn't want to rule
your life or take over it, or be the one who
controls it. If thats
what you think then, again, you are mistaken.
He is the only thing that will help
you make it in this rut. Its unfortunate
you exclude him.

In that event, our exclusion is mutual.

"We are God's unwanted children!" - Fight Club

Now, away from God, back to abortion.

Don't look at individual cases, look at society as a whole. Whenever a government has tried to enforce a social trend, it has failed. Prohibition practically created organized crime, after all.

Look at the potential child. Think of the billions of tons of CO2 he will unleash on the atmosphere. Think of the ozone the kid will destroy. The waste he will put out. You and I each put out a few pounds of waste a day, in CO2, trash, whatever. The kiddo will be no exception.

Think of the world's population. The only reason we, as a species, are this expansive is because we have the ability to modify the world for our conquest. The continued expansion will destroy our Earth.

Yeah, it's a horrid way to view things, but it's one way to look at it.