Abortion

First topic message reminder :

Ok.. I agree late term abortion is screwed up. But earlier abortion should not be tampered with. I feel that making laws controlling when a woman has a child is extremely sexist, since most of the lawmakers are men. And... it seems like men are trying to oppress women.

Furthermore, if the Pro-lifers would widen their field of view to look at the whooole picture. You would see that abortion is good.
Fact: Most women who have an abortion are NOT teenagers, they are middleaged and cannot support another child.
Fact: 20 years after abortion was legalized, this country experienced a sharp decrease in crime, especially the violent ones. Mainly because the aborted babies, would not have received enough loving attention, care, ect to grow into a respectable member of our society. Not that it is their fault that this would have happened, but by aborting it. The mother saved the potential child from years of suffering, possibly prison, possibly gang activity. ect.

Yes adoption is great, but please don't go on PUT IT UP FOR ADOPTION tangents, because unlike Juno you cannot find a couple ready to take on in, inside "The Penny-Saver" (Thanks to my GF for making me watch that movie... too many times.)

ok, I wouldn't call a tumor natural, really. It's a mutation more than anything else.

Kristal, I must say that your argument is rather interesting, especially when you previously mentioned that after fertilization, since the diploid number has been restored, that the new entity may be called a 'human'. I still don't really like the title human until after birth, when it is a standalone organism and no longer needs exchanges through the placenta.

I used to be really quite opposed to abortion. My friend Jeremy is actually in the foster program, and this kid is a very kind, loving, riot. He's had a rough life, but he makes sure that he just proves to the world that he's better than his parents. This kid is friends with everyone, lol. It's almost hard to imagine life without him, and if he were to be an aborted case, we would all be missing out.

However, still, Jeremy was that way through self-betterment. He's a righteous and moral kind of guy. I know there are also foster kids that are miserable and hateful, however, to argue morals is almost silly in this case.

haha, I agree that the quotes presented are ridiculous, but our world is becoming increasingly overcrowded. This really has no means of justification in your eyes, I'm sure, but still...

Being pro-abortion is really quite difficult. There are many arguments for the opposition, lol.

I guess my views in a nutshell include facts that (1) I don't believe the subject is truly a human at this point in development (2) There will be no pain felt because the subject's nervous system has not formed.

Overall, this is a sketchy topic. I think deciding to abort a potential child would be a hard enough decision as is.

Spishnittlestick wrote:ok, I wouldn't call a tumor natural, really. It's a mutation more than anything else.

Kristal, I must say that your argument is rather interesting, especially when you previously mentioned that after fertilization, since the diploid number has been restored, that the new entity may be called a 'human'. I still don't really like the title human until after birth, when it is a standalone organism and no longer needs exchanges through the placenta.

I used to be really quite opposed to abortion. My friend Jeremy is actually in the foster program, and this kid is a very kind, loving, riot. He's had a rough life, but he makes sure that he just proves to the world that he's better than his parents. This kid is friends with everyone, lol. It's almost hard to imagine life without him, and if he were to be an aborted case, we would all be missing out.

However, still, Jeremy was that way through self-betterment. He's a righteous and moral kind of guy. I know there are also foster kids that are miserable and hateful, however, to argue morals is almost silly in this case.

haha, I agree that the quotes presented are ridiculous, but our world is becoming increasingly overcrowded. This really has no means of justification in your eyes, I'm sure, but still...

Being pro-abortion is really quite difficult. There are many arguments for the opposition, lol.

I guess my views in a nutshell include facts that (1) I don't believe the subject is truly a human at this point in development (2) There will be no pain felt because the subject's nervous system has not formed.

Overall, this is a sketchy topic. I think deciding to abort a potential child would be a hard enough decision as is.

Yea, I understand that scientifically, an unborn child is not referred to as a human, I am just truly a hippy, pro-life person. I just feel that once a baby is conceived it is a tiny human, whether able to support itself or not

I mean I really do understand the whole pro-abortion aspect..I just do not believe it is the correct way to solve an unwanted pregnancy. I knw there are children who have rough lives growing up because of cases in which the parents did not want them, but there are more loving homes than there are negative environments.


But I agree that this issue is not black and white...I mean us pro-lifers, make it seem as a right and wrong type of subject...when it really isn't. It is just how I was raised, and how I feel to any human life.....fully developed or not

But you definitely have valid points Tht could be used to win a debate.....I just do not feel the same way

Darkest Rocker wrote:

Spishnittlestick wrote:ok, I wouldn't call a tumor natural, really. It's a mutation more than anything else.

Kristal, I must say that your argument is rather interesting, especially when you previously mentioned that after fertilization, since the diploid number has been restored, that the new entity may be called a 'human'. I still don't really like the title human until after birth, when it is a standalone organism and no longer needs exchanges through the placenta.

I used to be really quite opposed to abortion. My friend Jeremy is actually in the foster program, and this kid is a very kind, loving, riot. He's had a rough life, but he makes sure that he just proves to the world that he's better than his parents. This kid is friends with everyone, lol. It's almost hard to imagine life without him, and if he were to be an aborted case, we would all be missing out.

However, still, Jeremy was that way through self-betterment. He's a righteous and moral kind of guy. I know there are also foster kids that are miserable and hateful, however, to argue morals is almost silly in this case.

haha, I agree that the quotes presented are ridiculous, but our world is becoming increasingly overcrowded. This really has no means of justification in your eyes, I'm sure, but still...

Being pro-abortion is really quite difficult. There are many arguments for the opposition, lol.

I guess my views in a nutshell include facts that (1) I don't believe the subject is truly a human at this point in development (2) There will be no pain felt because the subject's nervous system has not formed.

Overall, this is a sketchy topic. I think deciding to abort a potential child would be a hard enough decision as is.

Yea, I understand that scientifically, an unborn child is not referred to as a human, I am just truly a hippy, pro-life person. I just feel that once a baby is conceived it is a tiny human, whether able to support itself or not

I mean I really do understand the whole pro-abortion aspect..I just do not believe it is the correct way to solve an unwanted pregnancy. I knw there are children who have rough lives growing up because of cases in which the parents did not want them, but there are more loving homes than there are negative environments.


But I agree that this issue is not black and white...I mean us pro-lifers, make it seem as a right and wrong type of subject...when it really isn't. It is just how I was raised, and how I feel to any human life.....fully developed or not

But you definitely have valid points Tht could be used to win a debate.....I just do not feel the same way

It's almost like each case is almost different, all sorts of options need to be considered (availability of adequate housing/care/etc), but then again, who can truly decide life or death like that? haha.

I don't think you're a hippie, and I have plenty of proof for that argument

Yea circumstances change....
But my opinion will not aha

Haha...I am a special kind of tree-hugger

50 million fetuses have been aborted since '73... Imagine how many of them would have been ****ed up lil things, and would have attempted if not pulled off a Columbine (btw I lived 3 miles away from that high school when it happened).

1.5 BILLION aborted since WW2 globally, mainly in china and the USSR. China understands the need for abortion (since they can hardly feed the people they have now.)
Not sure why the USSR had the second highest, you would think they would looove those extra soldiers for when the cold war broke out into a nuclear war.

But the top 64 most populous cities in the US equals 49 million people. If we had these fetuses grown into adults, with the given housing crisis, where would our country be? How many more people would killed in violent deaths? What would our schools look like, 36th in education world wide, ad a couple more million into the school systems and see how far we fall.

Price for an Abortion 600$
Price for child support (average $100,000 over 18 years)
Price for knowing you didn't add to the problem?: Priceless.

fuzzy wrote:50 million fetuses have been aborted since '73... Imagine how many of them would have been ****ed up lil things, and would have attempted if not pulled off a Columbine (btw I lived 3 miles away from that high school when it happened).

1.5 BILLION aborted since WW2 globally, mainly in china and the USSR. China understands the need for abortion (since they can hardly feed the people they have now.)
Not sure why the USSR had the second highest, you would think they would looove those extra soldiers for when the cold war broke out into a nuclear war.

But the top 64 most populous cities in the US equals 49 million people. If we had these fetuses grown into adults, with the given housing crisis, where would our country be? How many more people would killed in violent deaths? What would our schools look like, 36th in education world wide, ad a couple more million into the school systems and see how far we fall.

Price for an Abortion 600$
Price for child support (average $100,000 over 18 years)
Price for knowing you didn't add to the problem?: Priceless.

Oh I like facts
But you cannot really assume that the children would grow up to be killers, or troubled.

But I see that number of abortions and it only makes me sad...not "Oh wow! they truly helped our economy and country by killing all of those children"


And the problem is not allowing unwanted pregnancies to go full term, the problem is that too many people do not know how to prevent these pregnancies. You cannot really attribute violent deaths to these childreb that are not aborted either. I do not care of over twenty years violence has decreased....who is to say it is because of abortions. I doubt very seriously that abortioons were the sole cause for the decline in violence.
And our education system sucks, because our government finds it much more beneficial to spend its money on things such as war. We have people who spend millions on political campaigns.....yea, our priorities are in the right place!
If more money was given to schools....then the education system woud be vastly improved....allowing pregnancies to be aborted does not improve the education system. And not having abortions would not cause the education system to decline...it is not like there would be a significant number of kids concentrated in one school......it is spread out over the country.


But you do show great facts and make amazing points...abortion is just not for me.

fuzzy wrote:50 million fetuses have been aborted since '73... Imagine how many of them would have been ****ed up lil things, and would have attempted if not pulled off a Columbine (btw I lived 3 miles away from that high school when it happened).

1.5 BILLION aborted since WW2 globally, mainly in china and the USSR. China understands the need for abortion (since they can hardly feed the people they have now.)
Not sure why the USSR had the second highest, you would think they would looove those extra soldiers for when the cold war broke out into a nuclear war.

But the top 64 most populous cities in the US equals 49 million people. If we had these fetuses grown into adults, with the given housing crisis, where would our country be? How many more people would killed in violent deaths? What would our schools look like, 36th in education world wide, ad a couple more million into the school systems and see how far we fall.

Price for an Abortion 600$
Price for child support (average $100,000 over 18 years)
Price for knowing you didn't add to the problem?: Priceless.

Look, I'm a supporter of abortion (or at least the option of choice), but I don't believe by any means that you can tie that sort of behavior to these children or potential children. Some people succumb to corruption under a harsh life, yet others rise above and strive to overcome.

My dad thinks I'm the kind of guy that would pull of a columbine-esque stunt for my clothing choices and appreciations...he is dead wrong. It's like what my friend Jeremy told me (The kid in the foster program) ... I can prove myself better than my father, and I most certainly intend to do so.

My view exactly.....minus the option for abortion

6000(approx.) abortions occur every day in the U.S.
That is alot of kids that would flood our public ed. system. Sadly our system has been cut down to the bare minimum, with almost no room for expansion, let alone a large influx of students in 5 or 6 years.

Get more funding for the schools, get more potential foster parents(that are very good people, not the crazy cult types "adopt" 10 kids at a time), get it so the politicians actually care what happens to them after their birth, besides military uses, and then it would be plausible to limit the use of abortions.

Seeing as the first and last reasons will more likely never happen, I promote free, unrestricted abortion practices.

because our government finds it much more beneficial to spend its money on things such as war

The government does not controll the money. The money is controlled by a private group of [currupt] bankers.

somedeadidiot wrote:

because our government finds it much more beneficial to spend its money on things such as war

The government does not controll the money. The money is controlled by a private group of [currupt] bankers.

You think the government isn't controlled by the bankers? Rigged elections, paid judges, DA's that won't prosecute... we have no say anymore, it is their government.

fuzzy wrote:

somedeadidiot wrote:

because our government finds it much more beneficial to spend its money on things such as war

The government does not controll the money. The money is controlled by a private group of [currupt] bankers.

You think the government isn't controlled by the bankers? Rigged elections, paid judges, DA's that won't prosecute... we have no say anymore, it is their government.

I never said, nor tried to imply, that I thought the government isn't controlled by the bankers. I know the bankers run this country. I've seen the video.

Yah... so by saying "its money" it does imply that it is theirs, no matter who it belongs to:P

>.< Don't make me stop this religion!!!

Hehe... I'll stop trying to be a god of the gaps eh?! :O

Be an all-loving god. Maybe we'd get some people from the Chrisitan religion...

I love all humans that help society in some way!

That good?

Good enough.

That still = pro abortion, because they have not contributed! :O

Ok, I keep hearing about this in the election bs on TV.

To start out, why is it that religious folk are all "No, PROCHOICE IS BAD?!" By electing a president that does support pro choice, does not mean that you yourselves are going to be forced into it, that is the idea pro CHOICE. It even says in the bible that all sins are equal, a white lie will get you to hell just as easily as murdering a person, or a hundred people.

It is not up to you to judge people for their choices, nor to force your religious... beliefs.. on people.

Now its time for you opinions people?

Abortion is overrated.

It doesn't matter in the least bit to our economy, our values, or our way of life.

If you believe in pro-choice, then get an abortion. If you don't- then don't get an abortion.
If you believe in the death penalty, (which most republicans believe in), then you technically are murdering, just like what they say about abortion.
Anyhow, abortion can improve the average quality of life for the US.
Unwanted fetuses, (who will very likely become unwanted children), will not be born, neglected, and led to a life of criminal activity.

Also, if we outlaw abortion, it may drive some women to illegal unregulated abortions, can seriously end tragically

Oliviar wrote:Abortion is overrated.

It doesn't matter in the least bit to our economy, our values, or our way of life.

If you believe in pro-choice, then get an abortion. If you don't- then don't get an abortion.
If you believe in the death penalty, (which most republicans believe in), then you technically are murdering, just like what they say about abortion.
Anyhow, abortion can improve the average quality of life for the US.
Unwanted fetuses, (who will very likely become unwanted children), will not be born, neglected, and led to a life of criminal activity.

Also, if we outlaw abortion, it may drive some women to illegal unregulated abortions, can seriously end tragically

Nice.
Got bored online after an argument about this WHOLE subject, I think I won... but he would never submit to that loss.

https://the-gathering.forumotion.com/debate-corner-f8/abortion-t115.htm

We already have an abortion topic...and it's already called "Abortion"

lol.

I'll merge the two

I don't think abortion is okay..why do it in the first place if you can't have it?why not use condoms?one night's pleasure..lifetime of regrets..

stickey01 wrote:I don't think abortion is okay..why do it in the first place if you can't have it?why not use condoms?one night's pleasure..lifetime of regrets..

slippage, rippage, etc...
and if you ever do get in that situation you'll see that apathy is quite strong in that moment and then its the week afterward that you're like "shit... ".