gOD, ( You all knew I was going to do it)

First topic message reminder :

Prove your god is real.
Good luck... (you're going to need it)

Spish, your knowledge is astounding! Seriously, dude. You have a really good way of expressing yourself. I respect your thoughts and opinions. I see where your point of view comes from. It's logical, and its easy to believe and understand. I thought alot about how religion has caused some serious downfalls to our earth as a whole. It's pretty sad. But then I thought to myself, What if it's not the religion in general, but the people? People are the basics of religion. If the basics of something is filthy, it causes the whole project to be a fail. I saw an interview of Marilyn Manson. He is very wise. He say's what people might not want to hear. Why? Well because we don't want to hear the truth sometimes. I think that someone who speaks the truth should be heard. I don't blaim anyone who is atheist or anti-religion. I totally understand the reasoning behind it. But in response, I hope that those thoughts and feelings haven't been triggered by looking at religion as a whole...And, though the whole scientific thing might be true, where did it come from? Things don't happen all on their own.

Kissthezombie, thank you for the kind words. I'm not afraid to do research when my knowledge gets a bit hazy, and that's where some of the content comes from.

People are filthy. People in power use religion to manipulate the masses for their own corrupt agendas. That's why I'm against organized religion, but perfectly respectable of a more deist faith. It's just something important to the individual, and in that way, it's unique, so there are no mass followings or anything absurd.

And if I remember correctly, didn't you bash me a bit earlier for referencing Marilyn Manson? xD

kissthezombie wrote:...And, though the whole scientific thing might be true, where did it come from? Things don't happen all on their own.

If you truly believe that something can't come from nothing, where did your God come from? If you really feel that everything has to be created, even if you just mean the universe preceding the initial redshift, then just what created the creator? Those things don't happen all on their own :p

Oh wow, I didn't think I bashed you. I do remember saying that it was pretty obvious that he would deny the existence of God (Based on what I've seen). I don't agree with everything he says though, he has good and bad opinions and it seems like he says things that might not be true but have a point in the end. He also doesn't go around saying "Fu** all the christians in the world", like crazy teens I have seen on the street, which is why I have somewhat of respect for him. But then again, he likes to rip up bibles in his concerts, which is slighty disturbing, but I'm pretty sure that's for show. Marilyn, Marilyn, Marilyn...so unpredictable. LOL. Where did God come from? Who created the creator? Well, I'm sure what I am about to say is probably gonna make the least of sense, but here I go....Well I think that God is a whole different being, time as we know it, isn't measured the same with God. I can't tell you that God was born on one of the twelve months of the year a billion years ago. It wouldn't be true or right. God isn't human, meaning he doesn't go based on what we are used to. I think God is a mixture of past, present, and future mixed with special forces of nature and other creations that humans have not yet discovered.


I know I might be totally wrong, and that all of this may seem like it's all BS, but I'm not here to convert anyone and I'm not here to make anyone turn away from their beliefs. I just want to make it clear that when we think about religions, PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE do not look at it as a whole. You can't go around saying that all Catholics are hypocrites, Christians are crazy people who wish to brainwash, Mormons are vial people because of what you saw on TV! It's pathetic and it's so stereotypical. It makes my blood boil when I hear people talking about a religion as if they were to know EVERY SINGLE MEMBER.


And, I know how hard it is for those who don't believe in God. It's tough being looked down on and restricted from certain rights. It's not fair. I just want to let you know, that I am not with that. Now you can say,"I know at least one catholic who isn't a conformist nomad"
My prayers are with yall.

one of my biggest questions of being a christian what is the athiest beliefs?

There is no god.

How? y?

Atheism is essentially the belief of disbelief.
Most of us just tend to feel that science is a more believable alternative.

Then again... I shouldn't be using "us," as I have no clue how to classify myself.

My biggest question is why do people think god is real? He makes a great mythical creature

TheBoorbarian wrote:My biggest question is why do people think god is real? He makes a great mythical creature

You should check out the god thread that fuzzy(Fosnot) started in the debate corner, there are over 20 pages of vicious argumentation within that topic.

TheBoorbarian wrote:My biggest question is why do people think god is real? He makes a great mythical creature

The thing is, there are so many versions of Christianity, that there have become many distorted versions of what (or who) god is. So really, the 'god' that everyone believes in is a different thing for each and every person.

There are a couple of reasons why the bible seems so misaligned with our culture. I will only defend the details of the bible when they make sense, but first, we need to think about why the bible says what it says....(this may sound weird)

I believe the bible is a product of Europe in Christendom, meaning that details of the bible have every right to be questioned.


1. The bible was written over 1500 years ago...
2. A theocratic Europe positioned government over free thought, supressing individual interpretations of the bible, and projecting their own.
3. The evolution of the bible went directly through the government of a world power...they had total control over its meaning


European government was always mobilized against people who went against the grain of the theocratic interpretation of the bible. this means that the culture, view of life, and ancient ideology of the people who "formatted" the bible made room for interpretations that involved killing gays, stoning non-virgins, etc. This interpretation of the bible gave the government a unique source of power. it could evolve the meaning of the bible to keep the governed people in fear, at the whims of the state. If anything, the sketchiness of the bible only proves the corruption of theocracies on free will and individual autonomy. Although the details of the bible may be in some question, i believe the following 3 key points are all that really matter.

1. God created the world (obviously can be debated in a different post)
2. He gave his only begotten Son (Jesus died for our sins)
3. Whoever believes in him shall not parish, but have everlasting life

Without these key points, there would be no christianity. But what about all the other books of the bible? This is where i think the atheists backlash. The bible creates the following positions 1. anti-gay 2. intolerance 3. "cleanliness" 4. the correct way to worship 5. the PUNISHMENT

I feel like the positions listed above are easy targets for modern skepticism. Anti-Gay...Are you kidding? Stoning non-virgins...Really? Intolerance...WTF?
I can see exactly why the mixed messages of the old testament and the new testament create backlash in the atheist world view. This is where i apply my analysis from above. These details of the bible have been filtered through a corrupt theocratic Europe, but now, in the age of unregulated capitalism, i think that the bible can't change interpretation. No one can "update" the bible, so we are forced to deal with the Ancient version.


i am tired of this post....

So what are you trying to say?

TitsMcgee wrote:There are a couple of reasons why the bible seems so misaligned with our culture. I will only defend the details of the bible when they make sense, but first, we need to think about why the bible says what it says....(this may sound weird)

I believe the bible is a product of Europe in Christendom, meaning that details of the bible have every right to be questioned.


1. The bible was written over 1500 years ago...
2. A theocratic Europe positioned government over free thought, supressing individual interpretations of the bible, and projecting their own.
3. The evolution of the bible went directly through the government of a world power...they had total control over its meaning


European government was always mobilized against people who went against the grain of the theocratic interpretation of the bible. this means that the culture, view of life, and ancient ideology of the people who "formatted" the bible made room for interpretations that involved killing gays, stoning non-virgins, etc. This interpretation of the bible gave the government a unique source of power. it could evolve the meaning of the bible to keep the governed people in fear, at the whims of the state. If anything, the sketchiness of the bible only proves the corruption of theocracies on free will and individual autonomy. Although the details of the bible may be in some question, i believe the following 3 key points are all that really matter.

1. God created the world (obviously can be debated in a different post)
2. He gave his only begotten Son (Jesus died for our sins)
3. Whoever believes in him shall not parish, but have everlasting life

Without these key points, there would be no christianity. But what about all the other books of the bible? This is where i think the atheists backlash. The bible creates the following positions 1. anti-gay 2. intolerance 3. "cleanliness" 4. the correct way to worship 5. the PUNISHMENT

I feel like the positions listed above are easy targets for modern skepticism. Anti-Gay...Are you kidding? Stoning non-virgins...Really? Intolerance...WTF?
I can see exactly why the mixed messages of the old testament and the new testament create backlash in the atheist world view. This is where i apply my analysis from above. These details of the bible have been filtered through a corrupt theocratic Europe, but now, in the age of unregulated capitalism, i think that the bible can't change interpretation. No one can "update" the bible, so we are forced to deal with the Ancient version.


i am tired of this post....

Wonderful post, man, I feel that I share many of your believes about the faults within the bible. I am often told that I am not a "true" christian because I do not believe that all of the words in the bible are true. However, I often find fault with this logic because the Bible itself is a third translation of a second hand accounts. Also, a myriad of biblical stories were weeded out of the bible during its translation to english, this was because some of the chapters were deemed inappropriate. Who in the world has the power to alter out chapters of the bible? This itself makes it rather difficult to determine what texts are "holy" and which ones are not.

Anyways, I believe in the religion of love, this means that I will always attempt to aid my fellow person while I am living upon this earth. This belief is actually rooted in the story of the Good Samaritan, (Which is easily my favorite story within the Bible.)

Fantastic contribution to this thread, man, and welcome to The Gathering!

Well I would have to say that i am a (True) Christain for a couple of reasons.

1) I was born and raised in a Christain house hold
2) Christainity seems to make the most sense of all the religons
3) The morals of being a Christain are what i believe
4) Even if the thought was that there is no god then what do you have to lose of being a Christain
5) A problem thatmost people have with Christianity is, like what titsmcgee said about the gay thing, (God never insisted on being gay or stoning non- virgins) thats all mans idea not God.

bigdaddyt_kansas wrote:
3) The morals of being a Christain are what i believe

What are the "morals of being a Christian" derived from? (Is it listed in The Bible or interpreted from a sermon? I'm a bit curious.)

It gives several refrences to morals in the bible, such as in Corinthians, it talks about not going against the morals. There are several diffrent reasons on what morals are stated in the bible.

I think he's probably also making an inquiry for specifically which morals you're talking about. Not trying to call you out, but it seems like that was the direction of his question.

Furthermore, what really defines our religiousness? Can it not be more personable, rather than represented by mass organizations?

Well Con, religious views in my opinion is what you make it. I mad Christianity mine. But the morals well God never really says o look at my morals. He just shows whats right and wrong.

lol.

So over the year or so since I've been gone, my religious views have changed from that of overall hate towards religion to that of Organized religion is evil, while personal belief (albeit informed belief... you know the whole, actually reading your god damned holy book.) is perfectl fine.

well awesome! if thats what you believe cool!

bigdaddyt wrote:God never really says o look at my morals. He just shows whats right and wrong.

From page 4:

fuzzy wrote:Exodus 35:2 Kill all who work on sunday.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Kill Rebellious teens.
Leviticus 20:13 Kill gays
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 Kill non-Virgins
Leviticus 25:46 Slavery is fine, as long as they aren't christian

I'm only seeing what's deemed as wrong.

Exodus 35:2 is talking about the holy day. and you can cry all you want but its a rule that God put upon us at that time.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 is talking about obeying your father and mother! not seeing mutch wrong in that

Leviticus 20:13- talks about the right way to marry, and he says not to marry gays and yeah there are punishments.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21- Is talking about abstaining from sex tell your married. Not mutch wrong thing to do there.

Leviticus 25:46- Talks about bringing in people to live with you not slaves!


So honestly God does refrence morals and he does show what is right and what is wrong. ie: the ten commandments!

bigdaddyt wrote:Exodus 35:2 is talking about the holy day. and you can cry all you want but its a rule that God put upon us at that time.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 is talking about obeying your father and mother! not seeing mutch wrong in that

Leviticus 20:13- talks about the right way to marry, and he says not to marry gays and yeah there are punishments.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21- Is talking about abstaining from sex tell your married. Not mutch wrong thing to do there.

Leviticus 25:46- Talks about bringing in people to live with you not slaves!


So honestly God does refrence morals and he does show what is right and what is wrong. ie: the ten commandments!

Leviticus also talks about stoning your children if they happen to disobey, which is why I believe that some of the messages in a 1,500 year old book cannot be taken literally.

bigdaddyt wrote:Exodus 35:2 is talking about the holy day. and you can cry all you want but its a rule that God put upon us at that time.

1. Deuteronomy 21:18-21 is talking about obeying your father and mother! not seeing mutch wrong in that

2. Leviticus 20:13 - talks about the right way to marry, and he says not to marry gays and yeah there are punishments.

3. Deuteronomy 22:13-21- Is talking about abstaining from sex tell your married. Not mutch wrong thing to do there.

4. Leviticus 25:46- Talks about bringing in people to live with you not slaves!


5. So honestly God does refrence morals and he does show what is right and what is wrong. ie: the ten commandments!

1. If you disobey, YOU GET FUCKING KILLED. Ya, nothing wrong there. At all.
2. Alright, I understand your religious teachings promote hating "fags", but advocating FUCKING KILL THEM that... isn't what .. OH YEAH anyone would call 'moral'.
3. Sex is one of the most wonderful things you can do to pass the time, so unless you're promoting arranged child marriages, why the hell put it off? Does sharing yourself with strictly one women (we all know those religious 'leaders' don't follow this shit) make it any more special? No. So relying on the idea that limiting your life so dramatically is a good thing, well... obviously you've never been to college. lol. Also, if you go by my ideaology, then your religion advocates MURDERING WOMEN for the FUCK OF IT, because they enjoyed their bodies. Yup.
4. and I fucking quote "You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life" Yeah what the fuck are you talking about, 'not refering to slaves' go read your fucking bible.


5. So not killing people, not lying, and all the other shit, oh and 'not worshiping any god but..' are definitely moral. Since... only christians follow that moral code. Just kidding, just about EVERY FUCKING PERSON ON THE PLANET follows that, except for the whole worshipping a bullshit god.


K I raged pretty hard on that. Kthanksbye.

so your saying everything in the bible is to be taken literaly?